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Why “Sales” Doesn’t Have To Be A Dirty Word For Creatives | With Bob Burg, Author Of The Go-Giver

An image of the author, Bob Burg, wearing a turquoise shirt

As creatives, we cringe at the thought of being too “salesy”. 

We tend to be so “allergic to sales” that we swing too far in the opposite direction and miss out on winning gigs that we would, could, and should have won. 

What if there was a way to get clients without having to resort to being that desperate, annoying person we all know and avoid? 

It’s called being a Go-Giver. 

Of all the books we’ve mentioned on the podcast, there’s one that outranks them all – longtime listeners will know that it’s The Go-Giver by Bob Burg and John David Mann.

It’s an amazing book about how to get what you want without pushing away those around you.  

Today, Bob Burg joins us to talk about the book, and share wisdom about the content and principles brought to light within The Go-Giver.

Listen now to hear Bob’s chat with Chris and Brian, with ideas on how creatives can best apply the go-giver principles!

In this episode you’ll discover:

  • How Bob Burg came to write The Go-Giver
  • Why creatives have trouble selling
  • How taking focus from yourself and applying it to others helps you
  • Why customers won’t buy from you for you
  • How to be a go-giver in a business that isn’t scalable
  • What the difference between money and value is
  • Why we need to be aware of what people value
  • How the go-giver approach can be adapted to different personalities

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Click the play button below in order to listen to this episode:


“It’s not that they don’t like selling. It’s that they don’t like what they think selling is. Because if you believe that selling is about trying to convince someone buy something that they don’t want or need, well that’s not selling. That’s called being a con artist.” – Bob Burg

Episode Links

The Go-Giver

Bob Burg’s website – https://burg.com/

The Go-Giverhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/1591848288/

Go-Givers Sell Morehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/1591843081/

The Go-Giver Leaderhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/039956294X/

The Go-Giver Influencerhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/1591846374/

Endless Referralshttps://www.amazon.com/dp/0071462074/

John David Mann – https://johndavidmann.com/

The Go-Giver Success Alliance – https://gogiversuccessalliance.com/


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The Six Figure Creative Podcast

153 transcript

Brian Hood: [00:00:00] This is the six figure creative podcast episode 1 56. Welcome back to another episode of the six figure creative podcast. I'm your host Brian Hood. And I'm here with my big bald beautiful co-host Christopher J how are you doing?

[00:00:34] Chris Graham: [00:00:34] I'm great, man. how are you doing?

[00:00:36] Brian Hood: [00:00:36] I am doing so good, man. I'm excited about our interview today on the podcast, but before we ended that, what you've been up to my dude,

[00:00:43] Chris Graham: [00:00:43] all the things? So,

[00:00:45] Brian Hood: [00:00:45] can I actually pause and answer this before you even answer it? What Chris has been up to is growing this really thick caterpillar mustache on his upper lip that I'm like, it's almost so cool.

[00:00:57] If you would just grow out the edges and just do that little wax Carl tip at the ends, you'll be like warrior actually.

[00:01:04] Chris Graham: [00:01:04] It's a me Loreo I don't know. I don't know where his voice sounds like, but yeah, I, I grew a mustache. Um, since we recorded our last episode, I've always wanted a mustache. It turns out I'm not bad at it. It's thick And black.

[00:01:17] Brian Hood: [00:01:17] And he got a tattoo.

[00:01:18] Chris Graham: [00:01:18] Oh yeah. I got a tattoo. It's a, B.

[00:01:21] Brian Hood: [00:01:21] Yeah. So we're recording this in the spring right now. Who knows when this episode will air, have you captured a hive yet? Chris does beekeeping, by the way, if no one knows that Chris is a part time for fun.

[00:01:31] Chris Graham: [00:01:31] I have not captured a hive yet. I'm not a hundred percent sure that I'm going to the season. Just get a lot of life stuff going on. But yeah, you know, honestly, the, one of the biggest things I've been doing over the past six months since we record our last episode is falling back in love with photography and videography.

[00:01:49] And on our last season, at one point I was like, Brian, I'm going to record a video every week in 2019. And I totally biffed on that. I don't even, I might've gotten 25 weeks in before.

[00:02:03] Brian Hood: [00:02:03] Now you didn't even get that. So just to clarify, Chris did something, we call stick.com, S T I C K K. That's where he can put a deliverable on the internet. Something that he, he wants to do like a habit. Maybe he wants to lose a certain amount of weight each week or some sort of thing. He wants to different.

[00:02:16] His was a YouTube video every single week. And then he assigned me as his referee. And if the video didn't get submit by this specific time, every single week, I got to be the jerk that said, Nope, didn't do it. And you get charged a certain amount of money that goes to. You can go to a charity if you want, but that's a little too much of a cop out because you can just not do the work and say, oh, it's going to charity.

[00:02:35] I don't care. Or it can go to an anti charity, which is something just eminently hate. Is that a word?

[00:02:42] Chris Graham: [00:02:42] I don't even remember what my anti charity was, but it was something that I am not a fan of.

[00:02:46] Brian Hood: [00:02:46] yeah, they have like pro gun charities. Anti-gun chairs, GOP. They have like any kind of political thing you might love or hate. You can do any of those things and just pick something you don't like.

[00:02:56] Chris Graham: [00:02:56] Yeah.

[00:02:56] Brian Hood: [00:02:56] You probably didn't pick something you didn't like enough or else you absolutely wouldn't have missed, but I don't think he made it more than 15 weeks before it went now.

[00:03:02] Anyways, continue on.

[00:03:04] Chris Graham: [00:03:04] Something like that. Well, the good news on. that front is so when I was in high school, my freshman year, my mom bought me a Minnesota film camera, and I took the same photography class. I don't even know how many times, and I would just develop, take pictures, develop them. You know, enlargers and the whole nine yards.

[00:03:21] And over the past six months, I ended up getting a new camera and then I got another new camera and I've just been taking pictures and making videos like crazy. It's all been stuff for like my kids. And I've just been kind of getting my chops and it has been so, so much fun, just like running around with a gimbal and a Canberra and making fun videos.

[00:03:40] Brian Hood: [00:03:40] Yeah, I've been watching some of the stuff we've been posting on the instant gram and, uh, some of it's really good. A lot of it's really try hard to, but a lot of, some of it's really good.

[00:03:49] Chris Graham: [00:03:49] I'm still finding my voice. I'm still finding my voice.

[00:03:52] Brian Hood: [00:03:52] Yeah. Just so anyone is clear. Chris is calling in as being a six-figure creative is not photography and videography, at least not yet. Not yet. It's audio. So if you, if you look at Chris's Instagram and you're like, uh, you're like a pro and you're looking at this stuff and you're like, oh God, this guy is this.

[00:04:08] Guy's not a professional. That's why

[00:04:10] Chris Graham: [00:04:10] Yeah, I'm a wannabe, but I've got cool toys.

[00:04:12] Brian Hood: [00:04:12] it's important to always have like creative hobbies and create a balance. You know, especially as you start doing your creative thing that you love for a living and earning lots and lots of money, sometimes that even stops becoming as fulfilling as it once was because everything becomes kind of a job once you start making money with it.

[00:04:28] And it doesn't mean it's you hate it. It just means it's a job. And so sometimes you need that fun thing that is not monetized to do as a creative outlet. I have a ton of those, but not, I felt like I should probably get,

[00:04:38] Chris Graham: [00:04:38] Something more artsy.

[00:04:39] Brian Hood: [00:04:39] yeah, man.

[00:04:40] Chris Graham: [00:04:40] I ended up starting to collect vintage lenses, so like old 35 millimeter lenses, because they are dirt cheap, but they add this aesthetic to your video and pictures that are just super, super, super, super, super fun. So I've been doing that a lot. You know, honestly, it's been weird as I've gotten more into it.

[00:04:57] I've I've thought to myself, you know, I almost majored in video production in college, unless double majored in audio and video production and looking back, I'm like, man. I could've, it would've been really fun to make music videos for a living. It would have been really, really fun. And honestly, I'd love to get some people on the show that do that sort of thing that provide services to creatives that are.

[00:05:18] Brian Hood: [00:05:18] Uh, I'm a hundred percent certain we will. There's no chance we don't get those sites of those types of creatives on this show. But if you are that type of creative or, you know, that. Feel free to send them our way. What's our link to either apply to be on an interview or to be interviewed. You can actually, if you want to be interviewed on the podcast, we have a whole application process.

[00:05:33] Or if you want to suggest a guest, given the link to that.

[00:05:36] Chris Graham: [00:05:36] It is six figure creative. That's the number six figure creative.com/guest. And there's a quick little form on there. You can find.

[00:05:44] Brian Hood: [00:05:44] Perfect. So let's talk about our interview today, Chris, on the podcast today, we have a man you may or may not have ever heard of his name is Bob Burg, but he's written a book kind of a movie. Called the Go-Giver. And if you have been with this podcast for any length of time, you know, back when we were called the six figure home studio, I would say like every three episodes, we mentioned the book, the Go-Giver.

[00:06:05] So our six figure home studio audience has to be well familiar with this. But if you're new, if you just start listening to show recently, you may not know who Bob Burg is, but he wrote this book called the go giver and the moral of this story. We're not going to go over the whole thing, but the moral of this bookstore is the more value you get.

[00:06:20] The more money you make and as creatives, that can seem a little wrong.

[00:06:25] Chris Graham: [00:06:25] Irritating.

[00:06:25] Brian Hood: [00:06:25] Irritating. Yeah. It can seem a little wrong, a little backwards, but I think the interview that we do with, uh, with Bob today, he actually goes into. Why that is how we can think about sales as creatives and how we can approach things in a way that doesn't feel icky.

[00:06:38] He actually, one of my favorite things is where we talk about in this interview, how he essentially flipped sales on his head. And I think it's a much more palpable way as creatives to think about cells. So that is kind of, that's just one part of the interview today, but I'm excited for y'all to all be listening.

[00:06:52] Chris Graham: [00:06:52] Yeah, that's an amazing interview. And I was blown away. As he talked, I was like, oh, I want to be friends with this person. I want to talk to him more often.

[00:07:00] Brian Hood: [00:07:00] So, yeah, we just did an interview earlier today. Now we're doing the intro to the show, but I won't leave you hanging any more. You've already talked enough. Uh, what's the word for this Chris banter? God, it's like my least favorite thing on podcasts, unless I care about the podcasts themselves, which some of you may, some of you may not who cares anyways, this, this is we're done.

[00:07:16] Here's the go to interview with Mr. Bob Burg, author of the book. Bob. We are so glad to have you on this podcast here. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to come in on this.

[00:07:31] Bob Burg: [00:07:31] I appreciate being with both of you. Thanks for that.

[00:07:33] Brian Hood: [00:07:33] Yes. So Bob, with this book, you somehow managed to capture in the book, being the Go-Giver, you somehow managed to capture something that is so insanely relevant to so many industries. And if you would be willing, we'd love to kind of just get the quick story of. What led you to write such a highly relevant book too?

[00:07:52] Not only creatives, but business executives to, uh, pizza shops, to just any kind of some somebody random businesses and especially our own audio industry. Like we teach these principles. It is pretty much the backbone of what we teach here at the six-figure creative and six-figure and studio in our past.

[00:08:10] And it would be interesting to just hear how you came up with such a great idea.

[00:08:13] Bob Burg: [00:08:13] Well, so short story going from, uh, starting out as a broadcaster first in radio, and then television, and then graduating into sales and really learning and understanding sales, personal development, and so forth. I ended up eventually becoming a speaker. I wrote a book in the. Early mid 90, I guess it was published in 1994 called endless referrals network, your everyday contacts into sales.

[00:08:37] And it was really a book for entrepreneurs and salespeople who knew they had a great product, a great service that they brought fantastic value to their customers and clients, but they may not have felt comfortable with the process of going out into their communities and building the kinds of relationships that resulted in people wanting to do business with them.

[00:08:56] Personally and refer them to others. So endless referrals was just a step-by-step system as to how to build those, what I call know like and trust relationships, and you know, what is a system? It's the process of predictably achieving a goal based on a logical and specific sense. How two principles, uh, the key being predictability.

[00:09:18] If it's been proven that by doing a you'll get the desired results of B, then you know, all you need to do is a and continue to do a and eventually get the desired results of B. So that's what the book was. So it was a how to book, but I'd always read parables and always enjoyed reading parable. Since I'd been in sales, I enjoyed reading parables.

[00:09:35] And I think the reason is, is because parables are stories. And while how to books are great. I've certainly read hundreds and hundreds of them. And, you know, and there's something about a parable, a story that connects more than I, a heart to heart level. And I think we all know that intuitively that stories connect right in a way that how to instruction doesn't necessarily.

[00:09:55] And I always thought, wouldn't it be great if we could take the basics? Premise of endless referrals, which is that all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know like and trust and put it into a parable form. So I, first thing I just did is asked the question.

[00:10:11] So, uh, entitling it, what is the. Essence of that entrepreneur who was able to very quickly, yet sustainably build those know like, and trust relationships, and always comes down to they're givers. They're always looking to give value. To others. And so coming up with the title of the go giver was, was pretty easy and having a, somewhat of an idea of where I wanted to go with it.

[00:10:37] But really the best thing I did for the book was to ask John David Mann, um, who at the time was editor in chief of a magazine I used to write for, but had a reputation amongst those who knew him in his kind of niche market as a brilliant, brilliant writer, who would ghost written a couple of books. When, you know, we're real.

[00:10:57] And I just asked him if he would be the coauthor and the lead writer and storyteller, because again, I'm an outdoor guy. I'm step one, step two, step three. John's a magnificent storyteller. So I knew he could bring the story out and do justice to it in a way that I never could. So fortunately he said yes, and we collaborated on it.

[00:11:14] Only took us a few months to write it. But the tough part was, you know, finding a publisher. Our agent went through 25 nos from New York publishers until we finally got the, yes, which you know, which was from portfolio into a business book division of penguin, random house. And they turned out to be the perfect publishing partner or us.

[00:11:32] So, you know, things happen as they're supposed to, but that's really how that's.

[00:11:36] Brian Hood: [00:11:36] Yeah, that sounds strangely relevant to our own. At least the roots. You talked about the sales person that just struggles to go out and do the things they know they need to do. They struggle with putting themselves out there. So that, I mean, gosh, if I could sum up our struggling to one thing that would be.

[00:11:49] Bob Burg: [00:11:49] Yeah, especially creatives, like the people who are watching and listening to this, they tend to be just wonderful artists. They're so good at what they do. I mean, it's just, I'm always amazed when I go into a studio, what you all are able to do, but they don't necessarily sometimes even want to believe that they have to sell their services.

[00:12:10] Right. And see a big thing with that is really kind of a, a misperception about selling. See, most people who say, cause I guarantee you, many of them say, well, I don't like selling. It's not that they don't like selling it's that they don't like what they think. Selling is because if you believe that selling is about trying to convince someone to buy something they don't want or need, well, that's not selling, that's called being a con artist, right?

[00:12:37] Selling by definition is simply discovering what the other person does need does want, does desire and helping them. Interestingly enough, the old English root of the word cell was Solange, which meant to give, so when you're selling, you're literally giving now someone might say, okay, bird, that's all clever and everything, but isn't that just semantics selling, giving when I'm selling, what am I giving?

[00:13:06] Well, let's say you're talking to someone about doing business with you. Okay. You're in the selling process. What exactly are you giving that person? I suggest you're giving them time. Attendance. Counsel education, empathy, and ultimately immense value. So, you know, I want these wonderful artists and technicians and creatives to feel good about selling because it's only when you do that successfully, that you're able to help the massive numbers of people who need your help.

[00:13:39] Brian Hood: [00:13:39] To our audience, and this is why the Go-Giver has resonated with me so much. I think it's resonated with Chris so much. It's definitely resonate with our audience so much for that exact thing that you just talked about is it's essentially flipping selling on it.

[00:13:49] Bob Burg: [00:13:49] Wow. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it's doing. See the key, the premise of the basic premise of the Go-Giver is. It's just that shifting your focus as you're talking about shifting, but you, you know, uh, shifting your focus from getting to giving the focus. Now, when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing images.

[00:14:15] Value to others, understanding that doing so is not only a more pleasant way of conducting business. It's the most financially profitable way as well. And not for some way out woo type of magical mystical type of reason. No. You think, think about this when you're that person who can take your focus off of yourself.

[00:14:37] And place it on that other person discovered for an again, their needs, wants, and desires and helping them to get it, helping them solve the problem that they have, helping them get the solutions they need helping to bring them closer to happiness. People feel good about you. People want to get to know you.

[00:14:58] They like you. They trust you. They want to be in relationship with you. They want to use your services and they absolutely want to tell others. About you.

[00:15:08] Chris Graham: [00:15:08] You know, one of the things that really struck me about that Go-Giver is there's this story in the Bible where Jesus, his disciples are arguing about who the greatest among them is. And Jesus says something along the lines of like the greatest is last and the servant of all. And when I read the Go-Giver, it was like, holy crap.

[00:15:26] Like, this is what Jesus was talking about. And it even applies in business that blows my mind, like what the parallels are between you're talking about stuff. You're putting it in a language that's easy to digest and easy to understand, but the idea isn't necessarily new.

[00:15:43] Bob Burg: [00:15:43] Oh, no, it's not new. In fact, none of the principles in the book are new. And it's really funny because when the book first took off, you know, and, and we were doing a lot of interviews and we were often asked the question. About this book. That's what are these new ideas that you and John are talking about now?

[00:15:58] You know, what's new about this and I'd say,

[00:16:00] Brian Hood: [00:16:00] Yeah.

[00:16:01] Bob Burg: [00:16:01] You know, what's new about it. People have been, you know, doing businesses way as fertile, as long as urban market economies. I would imagine, you know, now not everybody knew that's what they were doing. Some people did it very intuitively or they called it other things.

[00:16:14] John and I may have named the laws differently and put them into a story form to make them relatable. But no, this is it's, you know, The focus on others. Why? Well, you know, when I speak to actual professional salespeople right now, I'll have, you know, thousands of in a room. And I'm one of the first things I'll say to them is this nobody's going to buy from you because you have a quota to meet.

[00:16:37] They're not going to buy from you because you need the money and they're not even gonna buy from you just because you a really nice person they're going to buy from you because they believe they'll be better off by doing so than by not doing. And you know what, it's the same reason why someone's going to use your service.

[00:16:54] Because they believe they'll be they'll benefit by it. And why wouldn't that? That's the only reason why they should do business with you or from, with me or what else now, this is why that person, that's why this creative, that's why this producer who can place their focus on that other person, again, discovering their needs, their wants their desires.

[00:17:16] And helping match up your services with what they need, want and desire. You're the person who's going to attain the business. And this is why we say that money is simply an echo of value. That money is simply an echo of value. It's the funder, if you will, to values lightning, which by the way, came from John, because I wouldn't think of something like that. It's like funder to values lightning. Yeah. So what it really means is this, the focus has to be on the other person, right? And, and the value that's, the, the value comes first, the money you receive, what you should receive is simply a natural result of the value.

[00:18:00] Brian Hood: [00:18:00] And this actually brings us to a point in the book and we're not gonna go through all the five laws of stratospheric success. Those are in the book and somebody of people in our audience have already read this book so they know. And if you haven't read the book yet, That's a great reason for you to go actually read the books and go by boss book right now.

[00:18:14] And

[00:18:14] Chris Graham: [00:18:14] It's the number one book we recommend. We talk about it more than any other book. Can we talk about a lot of them?

[00:18:18] Brian Hood: [00:18:18] yeah,

[00:18:19] Bob Burg: [00:18:19] Thank you so much. Wow. Thank you.

[00:18:21] Brian Hood: [00:18:21] yeah. We've mentioned it probably 30 times on 150 episodes. There's one law called the law of compensation that you just touched on. It's your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them. And I think that is such a wonderful way to explain what you just talked about.

[00:18:37] It's an echo of the value that you give, but I want to get your thoughts on that. How does that apply for someone that's in the service based industry, where you're directly doing time for money, it's not a scalable business. You can't necessarily serve tons and tons and tons and tons of people. If you're working with them, one-on-one on one.

[00:18:54] How does that translate for somebody like our audience? Who's pretty much working with one to a few people.

[00:18:59] Bob Burg: [00:18:59] So there is that certain point. If you're not able to scale past the direct time you were working with someone, absolutely. There is a limit because there is a limit of the amount of people you can serve now. Well, things you can do. One is still sort of still has its its ceiling. And that is find more ways to bring value to that person through additional services.

[00:19:20] But let's put that aside for a second because that's never going to scale big time. The other way is to do something that allows you to serve more people. So it could be that it could be this. Can you expand your business? Okay, can you license your knowledge or open another studio somewhere else where you, you know, you're sharing your system and your wisdom with someone else who's newer and who will pay for the rights to do that and so forth or.

[00:19:46] Can you create a product in which you teach other people how to, or, you know, the, for the, uh, you do a thing on how to produce your own song, you know, or something like that, where it's basically, it's not going to be a professional thing. As much as you're showing someone who's trying to even do their own demo or something at home, how to.

[00:20:06] Produced their own song, you know? So I'm just coming up with something from the top, but I'm saying, in other words, using your wisdom, something that is scalable, that people value that people would want to have, that they wouldn't be able to get. Other than through your, you know, your story.

[00:20:20] Brian Hood: [00:20:20] I think you touched on something there. That's interesting is just finding a way to reach more people. A podcast. We talk about launching a podcast in our community. A lot is a way to touch more people that ultimately can turn into more sales. Chris and I were talking before this interview, we're just prepping some stuff and we were actually curious.

[00:20:36] If there are any common mistakes that you see when people are trying to implement any of these laws, what are some of the misunderstandings people have of go-givers that are something to watch out for when you're trying to implement this sort of stuff in your.

[00:20:47] Bob Burg: [00:20:47] Yeah, there are actually two great question. The first is what mistakes do people make when they do this. And I think the biggest mistake is thinking they're providing value to someone when it really isn't valuable to the other person. It's valuable to you. And let me explain why I say this. See, there's a difference between price and value, right?

[00:21:10] Price is a dollar figure, a dollar amount value is the relative word. Or desirability of a thing of some thing to the end user or beholder. What is it about this thing? This product service concept idea that brings so much worth or value to another person that they will willingly in this case, exchange their money for it and be glad they did while you make a very healthy profit.

[00:21:35] So the value must surpass the price. Okay. In that person's mind a basic rule of economics. People will exchange their money for that, which they feel is of greater value than the money they're exchanging it for. Otherwise, we wouldn't do it. Right. And meanwhile, the cost of what you're selling needs to be lower than what you sell it for, again, just basic economics and so forth.

[00:21:54] And that works out really well. But what about. The type of value, as you're just starting to meet someone and develop a relationship with that person and, you know, the value you're bringing them in terms of knowledge, in terms of connections, in terms of help in terms of, you know, whatever the, we might think that because we believe something is a value that the other person thinks it's a value.

[00:22:21] But it's not necessarily because we all come at the world from our own unique set of beliefs are our belief system, which is by the way, very unconscious it's based on our upbringing, environment, schooling media. So you know, everything, but by the time we're a little more than toddlers. It's pretty much etched in stone.

[00:22:38] In other words, we see the world a certain way and we don't even realize we see the world this way, as opposed to all the other ways it could be seen. Right. In other words, we all live in our own matrix.

[00:22:50] Brian Hood: [00:22:50] Is there some forms of checks and balances you can put on yourself to make sure you're not adding value where you're not actually adding value where you're actually taking where you think you're adding value. Is there something you can do to help?

[00:23:00] Bob Burg: [00:23:00] And it's not even that you're taking it's that you're just not adding it in that person. Doesn't appreciate it. They don't not appreciate it. They just don't appreciate it. You know what I'm saying? So they just don't see it as being like, like, for example, let's say that. Want to make a connection between two people and youth like, wow, this would be great value.

[00:23:16] These two would be great meeting each other and you know what? It'd be really cool because they'll appreciate me for it. Certainly because I'm putting these two great people together and you just like make a mutual email introduction. Okay. Without. And one person's really grateful for it. The other one is tick because they do not like being introduced to people without knowing first that they are going to be right.

[00:23:39] You know what I'm saying? For whatever reason that is something that they, you think you're adding value and then, you know, this person doesn't appreciate you say, oh, but I'm adding such great value to this person's life. Well, not to them. So when you ask that you ask a great question and that is, was there a checker or a balance to that?

[00:23:55] Yeah, it's called awareness. I need to practice this myself all the time as well. We all do. And that is being aware that what we're about to say, or do we have to ask ourselves the question? Is this something that other person is going to appreciate? How do I know they're going to appreciate, have I done?

[00:24:12] My researcher asked the questions to know this is, you know what I'm saying? And we don't always know. We have to make decisions sometimes based on incomplete information, but we do our best to stay conscious of what we're doing. And that's the greatest check and balance we can have.

[00:24:27] Chris Graham: [00:24:27] This is something I struggle with a lot. I got into business coaching once this podcast took off and it's been a blast. But what I'll struggle with is balancing between helping somebody with what they need and helping somebody with what they want. And that is such a strange balance to make. For some people, some people will be like, oh, I need to make more sales tomorrow.

[00:24:46] Actually your business model needs some work first, and then I'll focus on what I feel like they need. And then they won't, it can be tricky to deliver value when wants and needs are muddying. The waters.

[00:24:59] Bob Burg: [00:24:59] Sure. And this is where the relationship really comes into play and where the trust really comes into play, because what this person really needs you to do is to give them what they need, even though they. Want that right now, you know what I'm saying? And you need to be able to, and that's why you need to be able to an attack full way, help walk them through it so that, you know, they actually answer their own question as far as, yes, this is what I need to be doing.

[00:25:25] And so that short it's always tricky. And that's why the, you know, the, the, the more work you put into running these conversations in your own mind and practicing it in advance. The easier. It will be one, it actually comes up. I suggest this to people all the time, because you know, again, we're all human and we all have these same issues.

[00:25:46] Basically. They just manifest themselves in different ways. Right. And so when something catches us off guard, that's when you know, the reactionary part takes over. And we really kind of are stumped. We don't know how to handle, but if we know that this is something that often comes up, that someone you are coaching, they say, well, I need more sales, but you know, that really that's just the manifestation of the actual issue.

[00:26:15] Okay. How do you ask a series of questions that get to them? Say to you? Uh, yeah. You know, something, Chris, I guess I really need to be working on the business model first don't I, or, you know, what have you, so yeah, sure. That's a key part of coaching.

[00:26:31] Chris Graham: [00:26:31] This is so great. I'm getting free coaching from Bob Burg guys.

[00:26:34] Bob Burg: [00:26:34] Yeah.

[00:26:35] Brian Hood: [00:26:35] Yeah.

[00:26:36] Chris Graham: [00:26:36] Bob, I've got another question along those lines. So when Brian approached me to co-host this podcast, I thought about it. And I was like, you know, I've read all these business books. My business is going really, really well. Do I really want to tell people my secret sauce?

[00:26:49] Do I want to share everything I've learned in these business books? And I thought about the Go-Giver and I was like, well, the Go-Giver would say, go for it. The Go-Giver would say, Yeah. share everything you've got and don't hold back. And I was astounded at what happened and how much value kept coming back to me by just giving away.

[00:27:07] Brian Hood: [00:27:07] Just to say another, my income has multiplied many times since implementing that exact principle. You struggle with there, Chris, but continue on.

[00:27:14] Chris Graham: [00:27:14] Yeah, you're a little ahead of me on this. I think. And a lot of ways, well, financially, a lot of ways, but one of the things that I've been wrestling with Bob is this idea of if I have to choose between helping a million people a little or helping a few people a lot, how does the Go-Giver come into play?

[00:27:33] Bob Burg: [00:27:33] You always do an analysis of what's. Best for all concerned. And please understand something. And I mean, I know you guys know this, but just, I, I just want to clarify for anyone who, you know, is hearing the title, the Go-Giver and if they haven't read it, they may think, oh, the Go-Giver does that mean?

[00:27:48] You're just like giving stuff away. Get no go givers. Make a really good point. Okay. We also tend to charge at the higher end because we're selling on value on high value, not low price. Okay. Sure. We give a lot of information we should, because we know it's a world of abundance. Okay. You can't give everything away because there's so much more people need from you.

[00:28:11] That, uh, you know, it's never ending. And so it's more that you don't have to worry about that you're giving, you know, everything away, but you also, that doesn't, that also doesn't mean there's nothing can ruin between being a go giver and being a doormat or being a martyr or being self-sacrificial. So please, if you're listening to this, do not think that's what being a Go-Giver is.

[00:28:31] Okay. It's just that. So often we see. The duality in terms of it's either this or that. I'm either giving everything away or I'm some greedy, you know, whatever. It's not that it's, that you're given wonderful, immense, fantastic value to others. And you're also receiving in great abundance, you know? So I think it's always important.

[00:28:54] So when you say, so going back to your question, do you serve a few people or a whole lot or? Uh, it depends. It depends on what your business model is. It depends on what your goals. You know, it depends on, what's more congruent with your values, how you, you might be the type who likes working very deeply with a few people.

[00:29:10] If so, that's the way you want. Or you might like being able to touch the lives of a whole bunch of people to a certain extent, and then allowing them to kind of grow in other areas without pay. So it's really not a, what would a go giver say or do in terms of one specific answer it's based on the individual wants, needs, desires, and values of those involved.

[00:29:33] Does that make sense?

[00:29:34] Chris Graham: [00:29:34] Yeah.

[00:29:35] Brian Hood: [00:29:35] I would also argue that I don't think it needs to be one or the other, either. It could be both that you go through, you can help a lot of people a little, and then get a few that you help with a lot that are paying you more.

[00:29:46] Bob Burg: [00:29:46] Well, that's true too. And that's part of the value ladder. You know, for example, we have our Go-Giver success Alliance, mentorship community, you know, it's $75. Okay. And, and everybody gets access to what the whole group of very into me and so forth. But we also have another level for those who, I mean, they want intense coaching from me that obviously I wouldn't have the time or bandwidth to do at this, you know, when we have a whole bunch of people at $75.

[00:30:12] So yeah, absolutely. That's a, it's a great example. Very good.

[00:30:16] Brian Hood: [00:30:16] Bob, we want to value your time here, and we want to thank you for coming on this gas, but I, I didn't even know you had, you know, makes total sense that you would have those education resources, like the membership community and hiring coaching. So I would love for you to tell our audience about it a little bit, because our big thing at the six-figure on the studio is we value education.

[00:30:34] Self-education above all. Self-education just means not higher education. Going and signing up for Bob's thing is what I would consider self-education. So can you, you're welcome to pitch our audience on what it is that you do. If you, if you think it might be a good fit for our audience, I will be more than happy to send our guy.

[00:30:49] Bob Burg: [00:30:49] Oh, thank you. Well it's, if they go to Burke, B U R g.com and they scroll down just a little bit, they'll see the Go-Giver success Alliance and really it's a private mentorship community. And really it's all about helping our members achieve their next level of financial and business success and personal.

[00:31:06] No, we're pretty big believers at one without the other. Doesn't quite do it. You know, you gotta have both. So, so we all get together. We meet once a week, we do a zoom meeting, but it's, it's really seven days a week. As long as someone has a smartphone, they can always be tuned in and really, you know, while I'm honoring.

[00:31:24] To be the, I guess, official guide or mentor there's people in that group who could mentor me. I mean, it's a good group of people, so too, it's really together. We all learn. We discuss, we strategize, we collaborate and really we just build really great relationships. So yeah, if anyone's interested in checking that out, that would be.

[00:31:42] Brian Hood: [00:31:42] Yeah, go to burg.com. And also if you haven't already please guide, we've talked about it so much before this interview and definitely on this interview, go by the Go-Giver book. And I think you have a couple of extra ones out there too. Like a Go-Giver for sales influence.

[00:31:56] Bob Burg: [00:31:56] Yeah. There's four in the series. A three of them are parable. So there's the Go-Giver, which is the original. Then there's, go-givers sell more, which is the only one. That's not a parable. It's more of an application base for the Go-Giver. Then there's the Go-Giver leader. And then there's the last one, which is the Go-Giver influencer.

[00:32:13] And that's more about people's skills.

[00:32:15] Chris Graham: [00:32:15] I need to read that one. I love it.

[00:32:19] Bob Burg: [00:32:19] No, I think your people skills are great already,

[00:32:21] Chris Graham: [00:32:21] thanks Bob. Well, we've had so much fun getting to hang out with you, man. This was amazing.

[00:32:27] Bob Burg: [00:32:27] Oh, thank you. That's very kind. I appreciate that.

[00:32:31] Chris Graham: [00:32:31] Awesome. Well, Bob, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure getting to hear someone speak when you've gotten to know their voice

[00:32:37] Bob Burg: [00:32:37] Uh,

[00:32:38] Chris Graham: [00:32:38] first. So yeah, this was, this was great. This was so much fun. Thank you so much.

[00:32:42] Bob Burg: [00:32:42] Ah, well, you guys are great hosts. You make it easy. You know that when you have great hosts, it makes it easy for me. Cause he just create that great interaction just to have fun and, and go back and forth. So

[00:32:52] Brian Hood: [00:32:52] Well, that means a lot coming from you.

[00:32:54] Chris Graham: [00:32:54] Well, we appreciate, we appreciate the kind words that, that, uh, makes us feel a lot more excited about digging into, do more, doing more interviews like this.

[00:33:00] Bob Burg: [00:33:00] guys, thank you so much.

[00:33:02] Chris Graham: [00:33:02] Thank you. We'll see you around. Thank you.

[00:33:09] Brian Hood: [00:33:09] So that is it for this interview with Bob Burg, Chris, any thoughts from that end?

[00:33:13] Chris Graham: [00:33:13] Dude, the fact that he spoke, like his advice for me when I'm doing business coaching was just like the encouragement and the affirmation that I needed of like, yeah, you're right. I need to, I need to help people ask the right questions. Not necessarily just ask them the right question.

[00:33:31] Brian Hood: [00:33:31] So are you saying that this blanket advice is also relevant for you? Just like it is for hundreds of other random industries that are no way interconnected.

[00:33:40] Chris Graham: [00:33:40] Yeah. I mean, like it was wild interviewing him because you get nervous. Like I love his book. Like it absolutely changed my life. I've read it multiple times. I'll never forget the first time I read it. But when you meet somebody, you're not sure if they're going to be better or worse than their book.

[00:33:56] Bob was bad.

[00:33:57] Brian Hood: [00:33:57] So true. Yeah. To be fair. He's probably had hundreds of episodes of practice on before that he's probably been on more podcast episodes than you and I have. So he's probably got a lot of practice being an interviewee, but from start to finish. Super nice dude. So with a lot of great insights, was there anything for you, Chris, that stood out in this interview that you think is worth dissecting further just while we're here?

[00:34:20] Chris Graham: [00:34:20] You know, I'm still struggling with the like, so I'm, I'm sold on, on Bob's and Jesus's idea the servant of all wins, but I'm still struggling with how to break that apart with, okay. So should I serve like 25 people a ton or should I serve like a million people? Or how do I balance those two? And that's a tricky thing.

[00:34:44] I think for a lot of creatives, they're either really good at serving a large number of people, a little bit or a few number of people a lot. And I think you could look at our podcast is a perfect example of that. Our podcast is like an hour long. You know, there's a lot of people that listen to It but it's not like the same as somebody that has a million Instagram followers.

[00:35:02] And Instagram is super rad, but generally speaking, Instagram touches a lot of people a little bit. There's not many Instagram accounts that are just like, oh my gosh, this changed my life.

[00:35:12] Brian Hood: [00:35:12] It doesn't go deep. I still want to push back and say, I don't think it's one or the other.

[00:35:16] Chris Graham: [00:35:16] Well, and that's my point that I think that for a lot of creatives, they either do one or the other and it expanding to be like, well, I'm not helping a lot of people, a little, maybe you should start doing that. Or I'm just, you know, posting my photography on Instagram. And that's the extent of how I'm helping people is.

[00:35:34] I'm touching them with my art. Cool. Maybe you should experiment with helping a few people.

[00:35:40] Brian Hood: [00:35:40] There's something. He mentioned that I think he breezed by that's kind of profound, which is go givers, tend to charge. For what they do. And I think the reason go-givers especially, I mean, he's seen it all in all the industries. He's seen more examples of that than I think we'll ever see. But I think the reason he's able to see that and why people are able to do that is because the way they serve, they're able to find those people.

[00:36:02] The value is higher. Let me just kind of explain what I mean there, if I, and I'll just use podcasting as example, because we're a podcasts, people understand that if I'm a podcast producer, I can be helping tons and tons of podcasts a little bit, or I can find podcasts that I will bring so much value to because they get so much value from their podcasts.

[00:36:21] Abby, I'm a podcast producer for big business podcasts for like fortune 50 or podcasts. Do you think they get more value from their podcast than someone doing? Uh, world of Warcraft podcasts. Like they probably, yeah. So I just mean, like I thought it was really cool. The idea of finding the people who get the most value from what it is that you provide.

[00:36:41] That's something that about to go give her that I don't think I really caught the first time reading it and I caught it this morning in one of the, when I was listening back to the, the book, talking to the CEO and about, uh, having to flip that switch in your head about feeling bad about making money.

[00:36:56] And she flipped that switch in her head. To where now she doesn't feel bad because she understands that the more value she brings to the world, the more she can earn. But part of that is bringing value to the right people in your industry. Because the same thing, the same deliverable, if you're a freelancer, and we talked about this earlier, when there's a bottleneck, you're the bottleneck in your business as a freelancer, when you're a freelance.

[00:37:16] Your service is not the same value to every single type of client. So one of the big takeaways, just that one little bit that he said that I don't even know if you Congress, that will a little bit, the big takeaway was find the right customer for the thing that you do. If you're trying to charge a premium for what it is that you do in your.

[00:37:33] Chris Graham: [00:37:33] Well, and something that's interesting about that, that I've experienced with the podcast. I'm like even grasping this more. I'm like, as I process it is, you know, we started doing the podcast and my goal was like, just to hang out with you, that was like the extent of my ambition when we started the package.

[00:37:48] Brian Hood: [00:37:48] Not very ambitious, Chris.

[00:37:49] Chris Graham: [00:37:49] So ambitious. Right. And like, I literally thought, like, how do I justify spending a few hours a week on this? I was like, well, I'll probably get mastering customers. And I did for sure. But when you finally talked me into doing business coaching, what was interesting for me is I would sit down with an individual and I would talk to them about their business.

[00:38:09] And I asked them a bunch of questions and get to know what struggles and what needs they had. And that was so inspiring to be like, oh, that needs to be an episode. And basically like the last 50 or 75 episodes we did in some way, shape or form was impacted by a coaching session. I would learn something about our audience and a coaching session.

[00:38:28] And we bring it back to the audience as a whole. I'm constantly taking notes in most coaching sessions, not as much now, but more I used to for COVID and those notes would turn into episode ideas. And it was really a cyclical thing where it was help a small group of people a lot. And that will teach you how to help a large group of people.

[00:38:49] A little.

[00:38:50] Brian Hood: [00:38:50] Yep. So again, that feeds back into the same thing where it's a false binary. It's not one or the other, you can do.

[00:38:56] Chris Graham: [00:38:56] And that's fastening. I did not expect to be wowed by Bob the way I knew it was going to be good, but he was so direct and so fast and so clear

[00:39:07] Brian Hood: [00:39:07] He's a pro.

[00:39:08] Chris Graham: [00:39:08] that it really got me jacked up for doing more interviews, man.

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